Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/23/2000 01:08 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
      HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                   March 23, 2000                                                                                               
                     1:08 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman                                                                                          
Representative Beverly Masek                                                                                                    
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative John Cowdery                                                                                                     
Representative Allen Kemplen                                                                                                    
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 205                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport hunters                                                               
and game across the Dalton Highway corridor."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 205(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 426                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or                                                                       
conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad                                                                
Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                        
Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or                                                              
widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to                                                               
relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an                                                                      
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 426(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 205                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: SNOW MACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/20/99       884     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/20/99       884     (H)  TRA                                                                                                 
 2/03/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 2/03/00               (H)  -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                              
 3/23/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 426                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/28/00      2336     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/28/00      2336     (H)  TRA, RES, FIN                                                                                       
 2/28/00      2336     (H)  2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, DOT)                                                                      
 2/28/00      2336     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 2/28/00      2336     (H)  REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION                                                                          
 3/23/00               (H)  TRA AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 405                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 205.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison                                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in support of HB 205.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director                                                                                                 
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions regarding HB 205 and its                                                               
impact on the permitting process for muskox.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant                                                                           
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
3132 Channel Drive                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented HB 426.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director                                                                                                       
   of External Affairs                                                                                                          
Alaska Railroad Corporation                                                                                                     
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
PO Box 107500                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 426.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails                                                                                        
Central Office                                                                                                                  
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation                                                                                          
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
3601 C Street, suite 1200                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5921                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:   Announced his presence in the event there                                                                 
were any questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-23, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing                                                                 
Committee meeting to order at 1:08 p.m.  Members present at the                                                                 
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Hudson, Cowdery and                                                                  
Kohring.  Representatives Masek and Kemplen arrived as the meeting                                                              
was in progress.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 205 - SNOWMACHINES CROSSING DALTON HIGHWAY                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill                                                             
205, "An Act relating to the use of snow machines to transport                                                                  
hunters and game across the Dalton Highway corridor."  There is a                                                               
proposed committee substitute.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO entertained a motion to adopt the proposed                                                                      
committee substitute.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0074                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON made a motion to adopt the proposed                                                                  
committee substitute for HB 205, version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle,                                                                  
5/4/99.  There being no objection, Version G was before the                                                                     
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE, Alaska State Legislature, came before                                                              
the committee to testify as sponsor of the bill.  He noted that the                                                             
proposed committee substitute changes the language on page 1, line                                                              
13, from "... the use of a snow machine to transport a hunter or                                                                
game across ..." to "... the use of a snow machine to travel across                                                             
..."  The language was changed in recognition of the travel that                                                                
occurs between communities in the affected area.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0132                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE continued.  He explained that a few years ago                                                              
the Board of Game established a food hunt for muskox in the central                                                             
Arctic region.  The board recognized that individuals from Nuiqsut                                                              
would have to cross the Dalton Highway corridor on their snow                                                                   
machine in order to access the hunting grounds.  They attempted to                                                              
provide for this access but were advised by the Department of Law                                                               
that a change in statute was needed.  He noted that on each side of                                                             
the Dalton Highway there is a 5-mile corridor that restricts any                                                                
ground transportation, except what is necessary for the highway.                                                                
He pointed out that the individuals from Nuiqsut and Kaktovik would                                                             
not be hunting within the corridor but crossing it.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0258                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether the                                                              
residents in that area would be allowed to hunt in the corridor.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "No."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule, What is the                                                                  
principal animal that they are going to hunt?                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied the principal animals are caribou and                                                              
muskox.  He reiterated that this issue was started as the result of                                                             
the establishment of a muskox hunt by the Board of Game.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0312                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether access to                                                             
the corridor is open to everybody.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied access to the corridor is for those                                                                
who need to travel across the corridor.  In other words,                                                                        
individuals could not bring their snow machines to the Dalton                                                                   
Highway and originate their travel from within the corridor.  It's                                                              
simply for those traveling across the corridor.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0360                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether he's                                                                  
saying that access to the corridor would be limited to local                                                                    
residents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE replied, "Yes."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Representative Joule whether muskox                                                                
require the use of a hunting license.  In other words:  Can                                                                     
everybody hunt muskox?                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE deferred the question to a representative of                                                               
the Department of Fish & Game.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0419                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,                                                                   
Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to testify.                                                                
The department is in support of the proposed committee substitute.                                                              
The law needs to be changed in order to allow individuals to gain                                                               
access to the muskox hunt.  It also reflects the changing                                                                       
distribution of caribou and moose for harvesting.  He noted that                                                                
the Board of Game passed a regulation to allow for access, with the                                                             
department's support, but it was then determined by the Department                                                              
of Law that the legislature needed to make the change in statute.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0498                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether anybody who lives in                                                             
the villages would have access to the corridor and game.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied nobody can originate travel from within the                                                                   
corridor, but anybody can originate travel from outside the                                                                     
corridor and cross it.  This is not a legal limitation but a                                                                    
practical limitation.  He said,                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     While it is most feasible for folks that live in that                                                                      
     area to avail themselves of this provision, there's no                                                                     
     legal restriction, I don't believe, why other folks                                                                        
     couldn't do it, if they were in a position to take                                                                         
     advantage of it.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0576                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he could cross the                                                               
corridor if he flew to one of the villages and rented a snow                                                                    
machine.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether he would have to                                                                 
have a permit to take a caribou.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied, "No."  A hunt for caribou is based on seasons                                                                
and bag limits.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce, What about the taking of                                                                
muskox?                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied a hunt for muskox is based on a permitting                                                                    
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0650                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether that permitting                                                                  
process is open to all.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE deferred the question to Mr. Doug Larsen of the                                                                       
Department of Fish & Game.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0669                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUG LARSEN, Assistant Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,                                                             
Department of Fish & Game, came before the committee to answer                                                                  
Representative Cowdery's question.  He noted that a hunt for muskox                                                             
is by permit.  The take is limited to a harvest of four or five,                                                                
and locals have a priority.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0693                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY commented that he can remember when buffalo                                                              
was hunted by permit in certain areas, but the permitting process                                                               
was open to all.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0725                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether he feels that the title is                                                              
tight enough so that it doesn't allow for travel to originate from                                                              
within the corridor.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied he hopes so.  The title appears to be pretty                                                                  
specific, but it really is a question for the bill drafter.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether an attempt to originate                                                                 
travel from within the corridor would change the whole complexion                                                               
of the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied, "Yes."  It would greatly change the character of                                                             
hunting in the area.  It would probably result in a Tier II hunt,                                                               
which nobody likes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0835                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Bruce whether the effect of                                                                    
allowing a certain group of people to hunt muskox violates the                                                                  
constitution, for muskox are a resource and the constitution says                                                               
resources are to be shared by all.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied this legislation deals strictly with allowing                                                                 
snow machines to travel across the corridor.  But if more people                                                                
availed themselves of the opportunity to hunt in that area, the                                                                 
department would have to place restrictions, which would affect                                                                 
everybody equally.  A Tier II restriction, he noted, would be based                                                             
on the availability of alternative resources and a history of the                                                               
harvest of the resources.  There would not be a place-of-residence                                                              
factor.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0925                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated there is a restriction because of the                                                             
permitting process.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE pointed out that the permitting process is outside the                                                                
provenance of the legislation.  He's not sure how the permitting                                                                
process works; he would provide information to him later.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted that he would also like to see                                                                     
information on the constitutionality of the permitting process,                                                                 
since the resource is not available to all.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0968                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Bruce whether it's correct to say that                                                                
this legislation simply has to do with a person getting from Point                                                              
A to Point B, and that it doesn't matter whether the person is                                                                  
traveling for gas or to hunt.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied, "That is correct."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1009                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK made a motion to move CSHB 205,                                                                    
version 1-LS054\G, Utermohle, 5/4/99, out of committee with                                                                     
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note;  she asked                                                                 
unanimous consent.  There being no objection, CSHB 205(TRA) so                                                                  
moved from the House Transportation Standing Committee.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO called for a brief at-ease then called the meeting                                                              
back to order.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 426 - TRANSFER OF RAILROAD LAND: CHUGACH PARK                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the next order of business as House Bill                                                              
426, "An Act relating to transfers of public land or grants or                                                                  
conveyances of interest in public land among the Alaska Railroad                                                                
Corporation, the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                        
Facilities, and the Department of Natural Resources to relocate or                                                              
widen the Seward Highway, to relocate railroad facilities, and to                                                               
relocate adjacent utility facilities; and providing for an                                                                      
effective date."  There is a proposed amendment by Representative                                                               
Halcro, which reads as follows:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          Insert "..relocate adjacent utility facilities from                                                                   
          Potter Station to Girdwood;"                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1062                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Office of                                                                
the Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities,                                                             
came before the committee to present the bill.  He explained that                                                               
the Department of Natural Resources has management responsibility                                                               
for the Chugach State Park, but they may not modify the boundaries                                                              
of the park without legislative approval.  The purpose of the                                                                   
proposed legislation, therefore, is to provide the Department of                                                                
Natural Resources the ability to work with the Department of                                                                    
Transportation & Public Facilities, the Alaska Railroad                                                                         
Corporation, and other utilities in order to modify, improve,                                                                   
upgrade and enhance easements, as necessary, instead of coming to                                                               
the legislature for approval for each separate project.  He noted                                                               
that the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities has four                                                              
or five future projects in the Seward Highway corridor within the                                                               
boundaries of the Chugach State Park between Potter Station and                                                                 
Girdwood.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1165                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard how the legislation would                                                              
affect the proposal for a rail spur in Girdwood, which is scheduled                                                             
to run along the west side of the valley.  Is that part of the                                                                  
Chugach State Park?                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD replied he's not sure.  He deferred the question to a                                                               
representative of the Alaska Railroad Corporation.  He has only                                                                 
studied the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities'                                                                   
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1211                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether Potter Station is                                                              
to the east of Potter Marsh.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD replied Potter Station is to the southwest of Potter                                                                
Marsh on the boundary of the Chugach State Park.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1236                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard whether any proposal to                                                                
widen the Seward Highway, for example, would affect the Division of                                                             
Parks & Outdoor Recreation [Department of Natural Resources].                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD replied he doesn't believe that Potter Marsh is within                                                              
the boundaries of the Chugach State Park.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1277                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Poshard whether the Department of                                                                     
Transportation & Public Facilities is "fine" with the proposed                                                                  
amendment, which tightens the title and makes it consistent with                                                                
the text of the bill.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD replied the department is fine with the proposed                                                                    
amendment.  It would not affect the department's projects.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1316                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO noted that the proposed amendment should actually                                                               
read as follows:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          After:  "facilities"                                                                                                  
          Insert:  "from Potter Station to Girdwood;"                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1337                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Mr. Poshard whether the legislation                                                                
would cover the requirement of the railroad to come before the                                                                  
legislature for approval to dispose of land.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD deferred the question to a representative of the Alaska                                                             
Railroad Corporation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked whether it's necessary to have a legal                                                             
description of what is being done to the land.  This legislation is                                                             
pretty general.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. POSHARD answered, at this point in time, the projects are still                                                             
in the preliminary design stages.  The specific tracts of land are                                                              
not available, which is why the department is asking that the                                                                   
Department of Natural Resources have the authority to work with                                                                 
them.  It essentially amounts to a swapping of corridors.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1445                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director of External Affairs, Alaska Railroad                                                                  
Corporation, Department of Community & Economic Development, came                                                               
before the committee to testify.  She indicated that the                                                                        
legislation is defined to land within the Chugach State Park and to                                                             
a corridor for the railroad.  It has nothing to do with assets from                                                             
the federal government, as Representative Cowdery alluded to                                                                    
earlier.  There is a bill in the legislature now which deals with                                                               
that issue.  She further indicated, in response to Representative                                                               
Kemplen's question, that this legislation would not affect the rail                                                             
spur in Girdwood, for that land is owned by the Heritage Land Bank                                                              
with the Municipality of Anchorage.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1500                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RON CRENSHAW, Marine Recreation & Trails, Central Office, Division                                                              
of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources,                                                                 
testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He announced that he                                                              
is here today to let the committee know that there is a                                                                         
representative from the Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation                                                                  
available to answer any questions.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1532                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to adopt Amendment 1, as                                                                    
amended.  There being no objection, Amendment 1 was so adopted.  It                                                             
reads as follows:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          After:  "facilities"                                                                                                  
          Insert:  "from Potter Station to Girdwood;"                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1553                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HB 426, as amended, out                                                             
of committee with individual recommendations and attached zero                                                                  
fiscal notes; he asked unanimous consent.  There being no                                                                       
objection, CSHB 426(TRA) so moved from the House Transportation                                                                 
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman                                                                  
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee                                                                    
meeting at 1:35 p.m.                                                                                                            

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